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	<title>Comments on: Opinion: EarthLink should not be confused with muni Wi-Fi and vice versa</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.muniwireless.com/2007/05/17/opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.muniwireless.com/2007/05/17/opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa</link>
	<description>Citywide WiFi, smart grid, enterprise wireless, public safety, mobile apps</description>
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		<title>By: Lesly Misteus</title>
		<link>http://www.muniwireless.com/2007/05/17/opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa/#comment-13461</link>
		<dc:creator>Lesly Misteus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 02:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muniwireless.sandboxdev.com/?p=6011#comment-13461</guid>
		<description>Hi

I have considerable experience with Wireless ISP but not much in muniwireless if by that we mean Municipal coverage using WiFi. We need to evaluate the article through an historical perspective. 10 years ago, cellular had worse coverage. One could arguably advance that to this day there are numerous areas , even in large cities where the coverage is far from adequate.
WiFi will get better, just realize how much progress there has been in mesh technology... We have not seen the end of the progress in this sector. Meanwhile the cost of WiFi networks keeps falling. WiFI has become a viable means of last mile Broadband transmission.

 I do not have a crystal ball but I would not bet against WiFi and municipal WiFi.. notwithstanding Business Street and maybe Wall Street negtative views on the sector...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>I have considerable experience with Wireless ISP but not much in muniwireless if by that we mean Municipal coverage using WiFi. We need to evaluate the article through an historical perspective. 10 years ago, cellular had worse coverage. One could arguably advance that to this day there are numerous areas , even in large cities where the coverage is far from adequate.<br />
WiFi will get better, just realize how much progress there has been in mesh technology&#8230; We have not seen the end of the progress in this sector. Meanwhile the cost of WiFi networks keeps falling. WiFI has become a viable means of last mile Broadband transmission.</p>
<p> I do not have a crystal ball but I would not bet against WiFi and municipal WiFi.. notwithstanding Business Street and maybe Wall Street negtative views on the sector&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.muniwireless.com/2007/05/17/opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa/#comment-13254</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 22:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muniwireless.sandboxdev.com/?p=6011#comment-13254</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure what happened to my original comment, but I thought I would post an update.

I got in touch with some people over at EarthLink and they shared some new info with me.  They were also able to fix that phone number on the web site.  It looks like they have listened to the criticism from people like us and are taking action.

They will now be offering reduced rates on their basic plan and have added another tier to their service.  The new Extreme plan will be 3/1mbps which is a lot more competitive with other broadband options.  It will be an interesting year for sure, but it really looks like EarthLink is serious about being the leader in this new industry and has placed the right people behind it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure what happened to my original comment, but I thought I would post an update.</p>
<p>I got in touch with some people over at EarthLink and they shared some new info with me.  They were also able to fix that phone number on the web site.  It looks like they have listened to the criticism from people like us and are taking action.</p>
<p>They will now be offering reduced rates on their basic plan and have added another tier to their service.  The new Extreme plan will be 3/1mbps which is a lot more competitive with other broadband options.  It will be an interesting year for sure, but it really looks like EarthLink is serious about being the leader in this new industry and has placed the right people behind it.</p>
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		<title>By: ERIC DAVERSA</title>
		<link>http://www.muniwireless.com/2007/05/17/opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa/#comment-13215</link>
		<dc:creator>ERIC DAVERSA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 19:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muniwireless.sandboxdev.com/?p=6011#comment-13215</guid>
		<description>Municipal Wireless is not that different from the history of the Hospitality broadband market.  The key attribute to both is that Internet connectivity is driving demand in &quot;high loiter&quot; areas.  

The Hospitality broadband market began with completely different models than what we see today.  Originally it was a revenue share model where the ISP funded the whole deployment (sounds like EarthLink doesn&#039;t it?)  When Holiday Inn (normally late with trends) jumped in with a coporate mandate for free WiFi, it sent a trigger rippling through the market (sounds like St.Cloud-FL, Boston-MA, Maywood-CA?)

Now the Hospitality WiFi market is migrating revenue share agreements into network management contracts.  Most hotels offer free WiFi or risk losing occupancy revenues.  Hoteliers have also shifted towards network ownership.

The Hospitality broadband market was not without its failures and model shifts.  Darwin Networks comes to mind (over $120M in VC funding.)  They were unable to endure the shift from build-it-and-they-will-come to the current model (&quot;anchor tenancy&quot;).  Their failure was only slightly impacting to the market.

Municipal Wireless is following the same trend.  It&#039;s inevitable.  Variations to the model are changing.  The real question comes in the form of just how fast Municipal budgets are willing to support the change from receiving to spending.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Municipal Wireless is not that different from the history of the Hospitality broadband market.  The key attribute to both is that Internet connectivity is driving demand in &#8220;high loiter&#8221; areas.  </p>
<p>The Hospitality broadband market began with completely different models than what we see today.  Originally it was a revenue share model where the ISP funded the whole deployment (sounds like EarthLink doesn&#8217;t it?)  When Holiday Inn (normally late with trends) jumped in with a coporate mandate for free WiFi, it sent a trigger rippling through the market (sounds like St.Cloud-FL, Boston-MA, Maywood-CA?)</p>
<p>Now the Hospitality WiFi market is migrating revenue share agreements into network management contracts.  Most hotels offer free WiFi or risk losing occupancy revenues.  Hoteliers have also shifted towards network ownership.</p>
<p>The Hospitality broadband market was not without its failures and model shifts.  Darwin Networks comes to mind (over $120M in VC funding.)  They were unable to endure the shift from build-it-and-they-will-come to the current model (&#8220;anchor tenancy&#8221;).  Their failure was only slightly impacting to the market.</p>
<p>Municipal Wireless is following the same trend.  It&#8217;s inevitable.  Variations to the model are changing.  The real question comes in the form of just how fast Municipal budgets are willing to support the change from receiving to spending.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Ellison</title>
		<link>http://www.muniwireless.com/2007/05/17/opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa/#comment-13213</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Ellison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 18:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muniwireless.sandboxdev.com/?p=6011#comment-13213</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments.

You make an excellent point, Marty, about not drinking out own Kool-Aid. My remarks weren‚Äôt meant to candy-coat the challenges of municipal deployments so much as take to task BW&#039;s headline and its implication that one writer&#039;s problems in one cafe in one city is evidence that the muni model has failed. Certainly, EarthLink is motivated to make the technology work (although I wouldn‚Äôt say they‚Äôre more motivated than others that has a significant stake in the market).  

The problem with headlines that declare Muni Wi-fi ‚Äúa failure to communicate‚Äù is that, in popular parlance, Muni Wi-Fi has come to describe any wireless data network commissioned by a municipality for reasons ranging from public safety to offering low-cost alternatives to retail broadband. As you say, every deployment is different and has its own set of challenges. Headlines that indict the industry under such a wide brush miss that point. But I don‚Äôt think we drink our own Kool-Aid in calling this a ‚Äúvibrant‚Äù industry. The number of players is small but the market is large and extremely active. Hardly a week passes (sometimes hardly a day) that we don‚Äôt see another city issue an RFP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>You make an excellent point, Marty, about not drinking out own Kool-Aid. My remarks weren‚Äôt meant to candy-coat the challenges of municipal deployments so much as take to task BW&#8217;s headline and its implication that one writer&#8217;s problems in one cafe in one city is evidence that the muni model has failed. Certainly, EarthLink is motivated to make the technology work (although I wouldn‚Äôt say they‚Äôre more motivated than others that has a significant stake in the market).  </p>
<p>The problem with headlines that declare Muni Wi-fi ‚Äúa failure to communicate‚Äù is that, in popular parlance, Muni Wi-Fi has come to describe any wireless data network commissioned by a municipality for reasons ranging from public safety to offering low-cost alternatives to retail broadband. As you say, every deployment is different and has its own set of challenges. Headlines that indict the industry under such a wide brush miss that point. But I don‚Äôt think we drink our own Kool-Aid in calling this a ‚Äúvibrant‚Äù industry. The number of players is small but the market is large and extremely active. Hardly a week passes (sometimes hardly a day) that we don‚Äôt see another city issue an RFP.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacomo</title>
		<link>http://www.muniwireless.com/2007/05/17/opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa/#comment-13176</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 13:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muniwireless.sandboxdev.com/?p=6011#comment-13176</guid>
		<description>Excellent piece Carol. Keep in mind that Business Week and their writers by definition will focus on the Business Aspect of these new Wireless Networks.
My concern is with the choice of technologies being deployed arouns the country.
What we need is a serious review of the technologies being deployed around the US by neutral technical entities and not analysts with agendas. Along with an acknowledgement by the industry that what we have to address (and design for)with these Metro Mesh networks is not just email and search anymore. What is required today and near term is a system (Access and Backhaul) to deal with P2P, VoiceIP, Multiplayer Gaming,Video and Music Uploads as well as gaming. What will happens when the public Safety folks start down/uploading Video Surveillance feeds on these Mesh Nets.
Most networks deployed today will struggle under this type load without a serious commitment to serious Broadband symmetrical links in the Access and Backhaul side. Backhaul between nodes(especially latency)is critical in any Mesh Network and in many cases has been overlooked in favor of just the Access piece.

In short what our users are doing today on their wired broadband services will be required of our Portable and or mobile services, otherwise they will seek other wireless solutions.

Do I hear Fiber (100Mbps+)as Gateways to these Networks??

Unfortunately I agree that one of the big draw backs to this industry and its future success is the lack of capable Network Providers-those who design, deploy and operate these Metro Networks. The question I have here is are they selecting the right technologies to address this market??

Jacomo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent piece Carol. Keep in mind that Business Week and their writers by definition will focus on the Business Aspect of these new Wireless Networks.<br />
My concern is with the choice of technologies being deployed arouns the country.<br />
What we need is a serious review of the technologies being deployed around the US by neutral technical entities and not analysts with agendas. Along with an acknowledgement by the industry that what we have to address (and design for)with these Metro Mesh networks is not just email and search anymore. What is required today and near term is a system (Access and Backhaul) to deal with P2P, VoiceIP, Multiplayer Gaming,Video and Music Uploads as well as gaming. What will happens when the public Safety folks start down/uploading Video Surveillance feeds on these Mesh Nets.<br />
Most networks deployed today will struggle under this type load without a serious commitment to serious Broadband symmetrical links in the Access and Backhaul side. Backhaul between nodes(especially latency)is critical in any Mesh Network and in many cases has been overlooked in favor of just the Access piece.</p>
<p>In short what our users are doing today on their wired broadband services will be required of our Portable and or mobile services, otherwise they will seek other wireless solutions.</p>
<p>Do I hear Fiber (100Mbps+)as Gateways to these Networks??</p>
<p>Unfortunately I agree that one of the big draw backs to this industry and its future success is the lack of capable Network Providers-those who design, deploy and operate these Metro Networks. The question I have here is are they selecting the right technologies to address this market??</p>
<p>Jacomo</p>
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		<title>By: Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.muniwireless.com/2007/05/17/opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa/#comment-13173</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 13:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muniwireless.sandboxdev.com/?p=6011#comment-13173</guid>
		<description>Part 2: My first experience with EarthLink customer service.

Well I dug around on EarthLink&#039;s website some today.  They have new rates listed at $6.95 per month (for only 6 months) instead of the 17.95 I have seen listed before.

They have a phone number on their site to sign up for service (1-800-433-WIFI).  I tried calling it, but actually got a porn service.  Hmmm.

Corpus Christi is still listed as coming soon.

I contact the live chat support and was given a new phone number. 1-800-327-8454.  This took me to EarthLink sales where they tried to sign me up for dialup internet.  I asked about the WiFi service and was told they are still &quot;upgrading&quot; it.  I asked if they had any ETA, but they could only offer to email me when service became available.

Neither person I spoke with was too concerned that their website has a phone number for a porn service.

You can see the site below.

http://www.earthlink.net/wifi/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part 2: My first experience with EarthLink customer service.</p>
<p>Well I dug around on EarthLink&#8217;s website some today.  They have new rates listed at $6.95 per month (for only 6 months) instead of the 17.95 I have seen listed before.</p>
<p>They have a phone number on their site to sign up for service (1-800-433-WIFI).  I tried calling it, but actually got a porn service.  Hmmm.</p>
<p>Corpus Christi is still listed as coming soon.</p>
<p>I contact the live chat support and was given a new phone number. 1-800-327-8454.  This took me to EarthLink sales where they tried to sign me up for dialup internet.  I asked about the WiFi service and was told they are still &#8220;upgrading&#8221; it.  I asked if they had any ETA, but they could only offer to email me when service became available.</p>
<p>Neither person I spoke with was too concerned that their website has a phone number for a porn service.</p>
<p>You can see the site below.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.earthlink.net/wifi/" rel="nofollow">http://www.earthlink.net/wifi/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Marty Hahnfeld</title>
		<link>http://www.muniwireless.com/2007/05/17/opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa/#comment-13117</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Hahnfeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 03:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muniwireless.sandboxdev.com/?p=6011#comment-13117</guid>
		<description>It seems to me you underestimate the impact a turn-away from Wi-Fi by ELNK would have on this industry. They have more motivation than just about anyone else out there to make these networks successful, hence they are very representative of the market! In my opinion it is naive to think this industry has some sort of robust strength and abundance of players. Let‚Äôs face it, you can count the serious builders of these networks on 1 hand right now, which hardly constitutes a ‚Äúvibrant‚Äù environment. While I agree it‚Äôs a great technology with many applications and massive promise - those spending the money are being careful, that‚Äôs because there is NOTHING easy so-far about ANY of these networks or the business models associated with them regardless of application. We, as an industry, need to be very careful not to drink our own cool-aid and stay focused on addressing the issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me you underestimate the impact a turn-away from Wi-Fi by ELNK would have on this industry. They have more motivation than just about anyone else out there to make these networks successful, hence they are very representative of the market! In my opinion it is naive to think this industry has some sort of robust strength and abundance of players. Let‚Äôs face it, you can count the serious builders of these networks on 1 hand right now, which hardly constitutes a ‚Äúvibrant‚Äù environment. While I agree it‚Äôs a great technology with many applications and massive promise &#8211; those spending the money are being careful, that‚Äôs because there is NOTHING easy so-far about ANY of these networks or the business models associated with them regardless of application. We, as an industry, need to be very careful not to drink our own cool-aid and stay focused on addressing the issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Kimo Crossman</title>
		<link>http://www.muniwireless.com/2007/05/17/opinion-earthlink-should-not-be-confused-with-muni-wi-fi-and-vice-versa/#comment-13079</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimo Crossman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 20:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muniwireless.sandboxdev.com/?p=6011#comment-13079</guid>
		<description>People keep trying to sell Muni Wifi as a solution to the Digital Divide yet it has inside coverage issues even with boosters.  And is priced at the same amount as DSL.  This in my opinion is a cynical way to use The Children, Poor and Elderly to sell a solution that doesn&#039;t really work that well indoors.

How large is the market for mobile and outdoor solutions is.  I keep seeing it suggested as a solution to an alleged problem if reading parking meters and utility meters.  Is that true?  What else?   

For Police and Fire, wouldn&#039;t a cellular data connection be more reliable?

EarthLink has put a huge stake in the ground for Muni-Wifi - if they can&#039;t pull it off with success, it seems reasonable to question if anyone can.

Also the Time Warner FON deal is for an indoor based router like you can buy at the store today - not the outdoor to indoor Muni-Wifi solution.

And the Sprint/Nextel/Comcast Wimax solution is on bands that don&#039;t have the same penetration issues as WiFi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People keep trying to sell Muni Wifi as a solution to the Digital Divide yet it has inside coverage issues even with boosters.  And is priced at the same amount as DSL.  This in my opinion is a cynical way to use The Children, Poor and Elderly to sell a solution that doesn&#8217;t really work that well indoors.</p>
<p>How large is the market for mobile and outdoor solutions is.  I keep seeing it suggested as a solution to an alleged problem if reading parking meters and utility meters.  Is that true?  What else?   </p>
<p>For Police and Fire, wouldn&#8217;t a cellular data connection be more reliable?</p>
<p>EarthLink has put a huge stake in the ground for Muni-Wifi &#8211; if they can&#8217;t pull it off with success, it seems reasonable to question if anyone can.</p>
<p>Also the Time Warner FON deal is for an indoor based router like you can buy at the store today &#8211; not the outdoor to indoor Muni-Wifi solution.</p>
<p>And the Sprint/Nextel/Comcast Wimax solution is on bands that don&#8217;t have the same penetration issues as WiFi.</p>
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