Comments on: A reflection on Starbucks in the US: lack of cafe culture and the role of WiFi

By: Attila

Attila — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 05:57:01 +0000

I don’t care for Americans —- paranoid assholes. Any Middle-Eastern country – even with its wars and despotism- has better socializing. America is a soulless country.

By: Joe McCarthy

Joe McCarthy — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:08:28 +0000

Ah, thanks for the elaboration!

The two new Starbucks “street level” stores in Seattle – 15th Ave Coffee & Tea and Roy Street Coffee & Tea – each have long communal tables, but no magazines or newspapers. I was at the Roy Street one yesterday; one table had a group of people who were conducting a meeting, the other had two people working on laptops … didn’t see any eye contact between them, but of course, that’s only one data point. It will be interesting to see how much community emerges at / around these community tables.

By: Esme Vos

Esme Vos — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:33:40 +0000

One of the things I noticed in Europe is the prevalence of long communal tables with magazines and newspapers. So if you are alone in the cafe and you are sitting next to someone, you can begin the conversation by asking that person to please hand over the newspaper across the table or to comment on something in the paper. Because you are sitting in close proximity, there is eye contact and making eye contact with a strange is usually a way to start a conversation.

I have friends who own a restaurant in San Francisco, which happens to have a communal table. They tell me that many people do not like to sit at the communal table. Americans, I guess, like their privacy and don’t want to be seated so close to strangers. They prefer to have their OWN tables. But this is not a general rule. I think in cafes where a lot of students and young people hang out, communal tables, even in the US, are quite popular and do generate spontaneous conversations.

By: Joe McCarthy

Joe McCarthy — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:26:27 +0000

Great post – and comments!

This was one of the first references I came across to Bryant Simon’s book, and helped whet my appetite to read it. I included your great quote about “zombie cafes” in a blog post I wrote in an effort to compile the various views on coffee, conversation, community and culture at Starbucks I’ve encountered on the web (combined with some of my views on independent coffeehouses).

In the book, Simon talks about the importance of spontaneous conversations and serendipitous encounters with strangers in a coffeehouse as a key to civic engagement. In your post, you talk about meeting friends and people-watching, but I’m wondering if you might have any insights or experiences to share about the prevalence of spontaneous conversations – among strangers – in European (or Asian) cafes.

Thanks!

By: David

David — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 04:27:11 +0000

Still, I think saying you are looking at Starbucks to find cafe culture is like saying your focusing on McD’s to find fine dining… Starbucks is primarily a *store*, not a cafe. It is mass-market coffee, plain and simple. I also don’t understand some of the comparisons made about “friendliness”.. I like to think Americans are friendly, and I certainly don’t see everybody in cafes here in Amsterdam walking away best friends (or even really talking with people outside their group). I don’t think it’s about cafe culture as much as simply having more in common. Customers at a cafe University adjacent will be more social, no doubt. Customers in a down-town store might just want their coffee…

By: Carol Anne

Carol Anne — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:51:45 +0000

Come try Centro Coffee House, in Placerville, California. I like to think of it as the “Community Center” of the City. It’s right in the center of town, at the landmark belltower, and it offers WiFi. But, more importantly, it serves coffee in ceramic cups or paper (I prefer the latter). The music is subtle, and encourages conversation. There are at least three semi-regular groups who’s members meet there over coffee every morning, ranging from 5 to 12 people. The City officials are there every day, accessible to anyone with a question. The owner, Gregory Phelps, has done a marvelous job of creating a community spirit. I will concede that other coffee shops (including Starbucks) have mostly closed, because they don’t understand how to make that “spirit” happen.

By: Esme Vos

Esme Vos — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:11:17 +0000

Some Asian cultures (the northern ones) avoid eye and body contact. But people in southeast Asia (e.g. Philippines, Bali) are much more friendly and they do make eye contact.

There are a lot of people who do appreciate good coffee here in SF. Witness the long queues at any Blue Bottle cafe. But there are not enough people like this to support a huge national chain like Starbucks, which has to appeal to the vast majority.

By: Steve

Steve — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:55:17 +0000

Good reflections in this post. My two cents worth is that (a) Americans are less comfortable interacting with strangers and (b) Starbucks, with its awful coffee and paper cups, attracts the most American of Americans. When was the last time you had a good conversation with a stranger in an elevator?
Europe is generally more open about interactions. Interesting you did not compare to Asia, where some cultures avoid eye contact on the bus or subway.
WiFi is great in places that drive efficiency, like Starbucks. It is less appropriate wherever we have the “cafe culture” — few and far between.

By: Arnon Kohavi

Arnon Kohavi — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 04:21:57 +0000

I agree that most cafes in San Francisco are “Zombie cafes” where people simply stare at their laptops and do not attempt to have a conversation. How many cafes in San Francisco have good music in the background? not many. Even places like Ritual, Cafe Roma, Epicenter and others suffer from this.
Initially I was in favor of free WiFi in cafes, but maybe it is not the right place for that.

By: Esme Vos

Esme Vos — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:27:03 +0000

You're correct to say that cafe culture exists in some parts of the US, mostly where there are universities. But the Starbucks business model is based upon hundreds of thousands of coffee outlets (I hate to call them "cafes") across the US. That means they have to appeal to the tastes of the vast majority who favor quick takeaway coffee and sugary buns. By contrast, look at the what small local cafes like Blue Bottle (my favorite) are doing in SF. Blue Bottle has the best coffee and serves it in real cups when you are drinking coffee in the cafe. They are not a large national chain so they can focus on quality and service.